64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

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kaeman
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64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by kaeman »

:D I just wanted to Let the fine people at megasquirt know that the efi system they produced will work on just about anything, I converted constant flow hilborn injection to efi on my 64 el camino. the motor has never run so well or started so easy or had so much torque. I would like to add a note, the injection worked so well I was able to blow the bottom end out the motor and I have just upgraded it to a 383, full forged rotating assembly, roller cam, lifters, rockers and valve stud girdles. with 29 lb injectors, I made 413 hp at 5200 rpm, and 460 torque at 3600 rpm, my average torque for 2500 to 5500 rpm is 444 foot lbs. I am just now getting ready to start data logging to improve the performance. I have also upgraded all my hoses to braided stainless , the engine compartment looks much nicer.
hilborn injected.JPG
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Last edited by kaeman on Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
burdie5533
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by burdie5533 »

Cool. So how did you adapt the electronic injectors to the Hilborn bases? I am building a 4cyl midget motor with old hilborn injectors.
kaeman
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by kaeman »

I made some parts on my cnc to mount the injectors to the manifold without altering the original manifold, the parts are 1 inch thick spacers that are mounted above the throttle plates and use the velocity stacks mounting bolts to hold them in place. I then set up a fake barrel valve to mount my tps sensor and ran hoses from a manifold under the sensor to the original nozzle ports to get my vacuum source for my map sensor, I am using speed density rather than alfa n.
50 Olds
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by 50 Olds »

Hey just saw your post...I've converted a hilborn set-up on a 56 Oldsmobile motor in a 50 Olds. hardtop. The motor is 334.4 cu. in., polished and ported heads, 284 deg. .447 lift cam, the manifold is from a 57 olds. 371 motor converted with msd parts to electronic injection, 26lb. injectors. I eliminated the distrubutor with EDIS. On the bench the motor should make about 350 hp at 5000 and 405 lb torque at 3500. However, I'm having a difficult time tuning the motor. I can get it running, but it will back fire thru the intake. Plugs are black, so its running rich. I've tried every configuration I found out there and still can't get it to idle long enough and smooth without surging and dying to play with the tables. I wondered if you have a basic msq. to get me started on the right track or some suggestions. This is my first try at tuning. The ecu is the MSII 2.886 edis., wide band LC1. Any help would be appreciated.
kaeman
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by kaeman »

Ok, where to start, I believe that rule number 1 when doing a megasquirt was first make it control fuel then add spark to the equation. I am doing that now. I have a mechanical advance distr. locked down at 10 btdc. and it has about 25 degrees advance so running down the road I have about 35 advance. I havent tried to do spark yet. I found all kinds of good info in the tuning your megasquirt guide.. its the 71 page guide that should be read before trying to do this.. (of course I didnt and had all kinds of issues) running way to rich...when I first fired it up. but in the ve table tuning on megatune they have the help key.. it told me exactly what I had done wrong. you first fire it up and see where your engine is running in the map rpm area of the ve table and then you change all the cells around that area to about 15. the unit will then idle without burning your eyes. after that we did the 30 minute tune and had pretty good success. its important to disable your o2 corrections while trying to tune your vehicle. I recommend a vacuum guage strongly.. that way you can tell what your vacuum signal to the map sensor loks like. my was bouncing around so I made the damper as suggested in the manual tuning your megasquirt. it stopped the erratic needle bounce which had to smooth out my map readings also. I have been having trouble with my wide band sensor.. I dont trust the readings I am getting. so I havent been able to do any tuning other that what I did on the engine dyno. also, if you havent run this style of injection before you will notice that your throttle opening at highway speed is only about 2%... my car is fun to drive and I am looking forward to some more tuning. I have to recommend the kinler throttle shaft separators, it allows you to cut your throttle shaft in two on each bank.... this is required to stop the throttle from hanging up when the engine is warmed up and you have to get fuel or something... the heat soak on the maniflod expands the aluminum and then the sttel throttle shafts bind up the butterflys.. its about a 2500 to 3000 idle until the fuel and air can cool down the manifold and release the pressure on the butterflys... go ahead ask me how I know about this problem...lol
I will look for some more tuning help as I learn it.. I would recommend putting a distrib into the vehicle and working out a fuel map then adding spark after you have a good running fuel table.
I hope this helps...
feel free to ask any specific questions that I may be able to get answers for.
kaeman
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by kaeman »

what fuel pump are you running, I found that the one that worked just fine on the 350, couldnt support the 383... I had to upgrade because fuel pressure would fall to 23 lbs from 43 under hard throttle high load conditions. give me an idea of your ve table now.. and I will look at mine and tell you whats up with it.. I would like to know if you are running the pressure regulator ahead of the fuel rails or after them... the idea that you are having the popping because you might be going lean for just and instant when you first open the throttle, and then you will get the popping. I havent started to tune the tps fuel enrichment curve yet..I want to go back and do the tuning as in the how to tune your megasquirt manual from the site online.. it had all kinds of good info that I didnt bother to check out because I was so excited to get the thing running.. but after reading the manual I saw the inof on the vacuum damper and such.. so after the next few weeks I will start tuning again... ( car shows every weekend for the next few weeks...) dont want the car down.. for that part of the season.
does it ramdomly pop without throttle plate movement..
do you have a unisync. I found my butterflys all over the place.... another reason for the kinsler shaft splitter.. it allows better syncing of the throttle plates than if you have solid shafts.
that stopped a lot of popping when I got the butterflies to flow the same...
no lean cylinders.
good luck.. feel free to ask anything.. I will try to answer your questions.
50 Olds
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by 50 Olds »

Thanks for your prompt reply. I've been reading and re-reading everything I can find on tuning. After many failed attempts at starting, I noticed my fuel presure had dropped off. Thinking maybe its the gauge I continued cranking away. I finally started checking out my fuel problem with another gauge and it appears I have a blockage down line. My task tomorrow is to pull everything from the fuel rail to the gas tank and find the problem. I'm hoping this is my only problem. The pump is accel 45 psi high volume. I have a filter on each end of it. My presure regulator is on the return line after the fuel rail. It's pretty much to late to be putting a distributor in now. The split shaft sounds like a good idea if I find I'm having problems with them hanging up or not closing all the way. Thanks again for your help, I hope to be on the success story side soon.
dch
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by dch »

Congrats and nice build and glad to see it running. Are you using the 2 1/16 unit or?, it will be nice to see your final # after some good tuning
Last edited by dch on Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
50 Olds
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by 50 Olds »

After pulling my fuel lines and checking for a blockage, I did find a small piece of tape paritial blocking the line. I also find I have a problem with my fuel regulator, it's averaging about 35 psi. The engine did start and idle after a little adjustment on the butterflies. Even with the low fuel presure it runs pretty good. I will wait with fine tuning until I replace the regulator and have the fuel system up to par. The hilborn unit is a 2 1/16th bore. At this point I'm just celebrating a running, working system. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
dch
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Re: 64 el camino, with hilborn injection, converted to efi using

Post by dch »

Not trying to hijack but here is a pic of my set up 383 stroker Dart pro 1 200cc heads Comp Cams roller 544I, 519E, 276dur and a 2 7/16 Hilborn with 40lbs injectors with Kinsler stacks and jack shaft.
Image
49 Willys panel wagon, 383stroker, Hilborn EFI conversion,msII v3 8pin HEI Image
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