16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

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drholl
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16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby drholl » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:41 pm

Many of my friends knew I’ve been working on my kids 1959, Big Block (502), Chevy powered Cadillac for a while. To get good mileage out of it, I installed a Megasquirt V3 set to be lean for mileage when under light loads. A couple weeks ago, I figured I was finished with the installation, so I did a mileage check.

Here's what I did. 104 miles from a tracking device that recorded "everywhere" I went, 104 miles (by GPS), 6.49 Gallons, 16.02 MPG. This Megasquirt (MS) Fuel Injection is Bitchin’. And we’re easily talking about a 5,000 pound land yacht, it needs a mooring bouy.!!

Yes, under no load it’s running lean. But, put your foot in it and it’s running an AFR of 13.4:1. And it SCOOTS.!!!

It’s not a race car. But, it’s got 10.25-1 compression, a tugboat camshaft, MS controlled 8 pin HEI ignition and TBI. It's setup for mileage. As I looked at my records from the tracking device, most of the driving was on city streets.
There were 2 short trips on the highway:
1) About 12 miles – Total. (6 miles each way)
2) About 5 miles – Total. (2 ½ each way)
104 Miles / 6.49 Gallons = 16.02 MPG.
16 MPG – AROUND TOWN, on regular gas!!, for a fuel injected ‘59 Cadillac with a 502!

I’m stoked, this is fantastic.!!! This is awesome, for a 502 Chevy Big Block in a ’59 Cadillac to get this kind of mileage in mostly “AROUND TOWN” driving is almost unbelievable. 16 MPG. And this was from gas station, back to the same station and the same pump.!!! (Filled to the top both times.)
Heck, I know a LOT of new cars that can’t touch this around town.
Now to do some freeway mileage checking. My guess is, I’ll get about 22 MPG.

This is a - no lie, no B.S., no pipe dream, honest as I could get, accurate – “Test”.
It took 8 days, at least 5 cold starts, and over 6 hours of driving to put the miles on the car for this test.
Here's my MSQ. But remember, this engine has a tugboat camshaft for torque, not horsepower. Use this at your own risk. It's a 454 TBI (2 inch), set to run lean for mileage. 30 degrees max timing when your foot is in it. It's in a land yacht. It runs on regular gas. It's not a "Hot Rod".

Oh yeah, it used to get 10 MPG, on as good day. I'm an old guy, but I understand internal combustion.
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Last edited by drholl on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Holl

MS-II, V 3, 2.886, LC-1. 1971 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 350, 270 HP. 1959 German Corvette, bought in Berlin. With a 160 "KPH" speedo. KPH??? - What were they thinking? 160 KPH is only 100 MPH. We can peg that in third gear!!! 1959 Cadillac, 502, huge Chrome Bumpers and really BIG FINS!!!

jagdude
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Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby jagdude » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:25 pm

That's a really nice Caddy and the new fuel numbers are great.


Congrats.

seishuku
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Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby seishuku » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:51 pm

No kidding, no way you could pull that with a carb I'd bet.

What kind of AFR are you running on cruise?

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drholl
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Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby drholl » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:33 pm

My .MSQ is posted. And what I requested from the MS VE, is what I got, after a few iterations from MegaLogViewer.
It's awesome. Here's a typical sample of a really long datalog. Hope you can read this section. That RPM means it was from about 70 MPH on the Freeway. 2600 RPM = 72 MPH.

Holl
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Holl

MS-II, V 3, 2.886, LC-1. 1971 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 350, 270 HP. 1959 German Corvette, bought in Berlin. With a 160 "KPH" speedo. KPH??? - What were they thinking? 160 KPH is only 100 MPH. We can peg that in third gear!!! 1959 Cadillac, 502, huge Chrome Bumpers and really BIG FINS!!!

seishuku
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Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby seishuku » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:23 pm

Wow, 17.5:1... That's pretty lean.
I think maybe I need to lean out my cruise a little now, I hover around 16:1.

Not getting any overheating issues on long highway cruises? Though I suppose you have a pretty beefy radiator to go with that big engine.

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drholl
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Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby drholl » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:55 pm

This car was an 8 - 10 MPG car, on a carb. The other car got great mileage after I MegaSquirted it. So when I did this one I actually tried for mileage, not power. This car when we built it was heavy on the "FEED ME"! Some asked if it got hot during driving, no. Just as it was before, no change. I still have its' 1959 Cadillac 390 cubic inch radiator, it's been re-cored many years ago and was always running a little hot. There has been no change since I started the project. I have a 192 degree thermostat.

If you have any questions, just put them in here. I'll try to give answers when I see them.

Thanks Guys.
Holl

P. S. My next project is an old 327 cubic inch Chevy. And I'll be using points for the ignition trigger and let the MS fire the coil through a remote 4 pin HEI module.
Last edited by drholl on Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Holl

MS-II, V 3, 2.886, LC-1. 1971 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 350, 270 HP. 1959 German Corvette, bought in Berlin. With a 160 "KPH" speedo. KPH??? - What were they thinking? 160 KPH is only 100 MPH. We can peg that in third gear!!! 1959 Cadillac, 502, huge Chrome Bumpers and really BIG FINS!!!

sedd
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Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby sedd » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:59 pm

Would you be willing to share your tables or tune with me? I have a 540 chevy and just getting started setting it up and tuning it.

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drholl
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Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby drholl » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:09 pm

Here is my latest ".MSQ".

The earlier one was just for mileage, light on AE and generally lean on the cruising bins. This one is a really good running setup and it gets great mileage. I haven't been able to do a "Just around town" or a "Just Freeway", this .MSQ is a little richer around town for excellent driving manners and leaner on the highway for mileage.

We just finished a "New Years" cruise, 125 miles, 400 cars, in traffic, through the mountains and and some nice open rural roads.

6.3 US gallons, 125 miles = 19.8 MPG from the 502.... This is so cool!!!

Remember, with a carb it was a 6 - 10 MPG, 5,000 pound, 20 foot long, - LAND YACHT.

I replaced the radiator with an identical sized aluminum radiator using the stock engine driven fan and shroud. Nothing special.

BTW, this is a 454 bored 80 thou with a 4.25 stroker crank with a .005 offset regrind applied to it so that it would fit inside the room that the oil pan allows, all built for torque. Think "Tugboat" camshaft. I don't think I've ever run it faster than 4,800 RPM. It's not a race car.

Oh yeah, that old .MSQ got 23.5 MPG on the highway.
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Holl

MS-II, V 3, 2.886, LC-1. 1971 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 350, 270 HP. 1959 German Corvette, bought in Berlin. With a 160 "KPH" speedo. KPH??? - What were they thinking? 160 KPH is only 100 MPH. We can peg that in third gear!!! 1959 Cadillac, 502, huge Chrome Bumpers and really BIG FINS!!!

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drholl
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby drholl » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:20 am

1.msq

OK, Here's the latest.

16 MPG around town.
26 MPG on an easy highway cruise.

Big block Chevy running lean at cruise.

I have found that as I lean it out past 18.7 to 1, it will start to miss which causes the WBO2 to bounce between 18.5 and 19 to 1.

So the leanest this car runs happy at, is about 18.5 to 1 at @ 37 kPa. Remember this is a cruiser. It has a tugboat camshaft and TBI 2 BBL.

OK, this is an honest, no bull, mileage check that I took on the freeway.
I have the fuel injection set for lean on cruise but rich when foot stomping time comes around, 13.5 to 1.

I drove like a little old lady at, as close as I could, to an honest 60 MPH, except when I had to slow down just one time to about 10 MPH for a broken down car that was being pushed out of the traffic lanes. Traffic was, otherwise, very light. I verified the miles driven with the GPS tracker in the car, not the odometer. The odometer said I traveled a few more miles than the tracker. I believe the GPS is more accurate. So I didn’t use the odometer, I used the tracker for the miles traveled.

I filled it to the top at the local gas station. Then went on the highway South.
I traveled 176.5 miles. I didn’t follow any trucks, there weren’t any!
I was usually a little slower than the normal flow of traffic.
I traveled on mostly flat freeway down towards San Diego, where, when traffic started to bunch up after Las Pulgas by Camp Pendleton, I turned around and went back north until I got back to an easy turnaround location. And since I was looking to put a fair amount of miles for the mileage check, and there had been no bad traffic, I went and turned around again! I went down to Las Pulgas again. I started to get tired, so I headed home to fill it up to the top again and find out the results.

It took 6.825 gallons.
176.5 divided by 6.825 equals 25.86 Miles per gallon.
Now, I drove as easy as I could.
I pretended I had a fresh egg taped to the top of the gas pedal.

ZERO, NADA, NONE, HOT RODDING!

Can I repeat this? Yes, I believe I can.

Remember, all the new cars base their mileage claims at @ 42 miles per hour on a specially constructed circular track!.

Now I've got to do the same for the old Corvette!

Holl
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Holl

MS-II, V 3, 2.886, LC-1. 1971 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 350, 270 HP. 1959 German Corvette, bought in Berlin. With a 160 "KPH" speedo. KPH??? - What were they thinking? 160 KPH is only 100 MPH. We can peg that in third gear!!! 1959 Cadillac, 502, huge Chrome Bumpers and really BIG FINS!!!

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drholl
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Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: 16 MPG around town, 502 powered '59 Cadillac

Postby drholl » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:37 pm

1 A.msq


OK. I finalized my .MSQ.

The Cadillac runs great. The mileage is 16 miles per Gallon around town and 26 on the highway.
Most V6s don't get this mileage!!!

Here is a final .MSQ.

Al - Bruce, Thank You very much, for your ingenuity and design talents, in building such a fantastic system.

The only tiny issue that is apparent, is that when it's started it has a rolling idle until it goes into closed loop (about 20 seconds) but I always warm up my cars for 30 seconds anyway, so no biggie. Trust me, for this kind of mileage I'll live with the rolling idle for 20 seconds while it's warming up.

If I richen it up, at the 38 and 30 kPa's, the rolling idle goes away. I've done it. But I don't care, I get GREAT mileage. And I let it warm up for 30 seconds anyway.

Holl
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Holl

MS-II, V 3, 2.886, LC-1. 1971 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 350, 270 HP. 1959 German Corvette, bought in Berlin. With a 160 "KPH" speedo. KPH??? - What were they thinking? 160 KPH is only 100 MPH. We can peg that in third gear!!! 1959 Cadillac, 502, huge Chrome Bumpers and really BIG FINS!!!


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