70-something Stires Trike

Sluggy
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70-something Stires Trike

Post by Sluggy »

I found and purchased my VW trike even while I was working on Buzz so perhaps needless to say, I am planning to 'squirt it, too.

As is wise in such endeavors, I have been gathering some parts that will be needed for it.

I have the in-tank fuel pump from a Ninja 650 motorcycle. I think it will be easy to put it in the existing tank which is basically a welded up cube. I am slightly concerned that the sump may hang down low enough to drag, but there is room to move the tank up on its mounts, too.

I have a set of thottle bodies that were supposedly from a KFX450, but appear instead to be from a Ninja 650 or maybe a Versys. The throats of this set of throttle bodies are set at 75mm between centers, which corresponds to the spacing on several Weber and Delorto carburetors that are popular on VW engines, so it should be pretty easy to adapt them to readily available manifolds.

The EDIS ignition I got for Buzz could not rev as high as Buzz's engine, but will work perfectly for the relatively low reving aircooled VW engine. There is ample precedent for adapting trigger wheels from various Ford engines to the crank pulley on the VW.

I will probably borrow the WB O2 system off Buzz, probably temporarily, but maybe permanently.

After those items, the biggest thing left is the controller itself. I'd like to use a Microsquirt, but I will probably just get another kit from DIYAutotune.

More to follow....
Last edited by Sluggy on Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:33 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Sluggy
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The body is on; so is the rush!

Post by Sluggy »

This blog is about the MegaSquirt conversion of the engine in my VW powered trike. There is another blog about other parts of the reconditioning of this trike and another at my trike blog. The trike referred to here is currently known only as either The Purple Trike or The Dragon Trike.

With the trike in place at the BTW clubhouse, I took the body off and set about trying to start the thing up. It hasn't run since I took all the intake, ignition and charging components off to install motor bling... Before... After.

Even before it came apart, it wasn't running right and with the benefit of the experience troubleshooting the Yellow Trike, I now realize that I probably have some form of intake leak. On The Yellow Trike, it was around the throttle shaft of the carburetor. This one appears to have about as much play as that one did. If it turns out to be that, I will borrow the new carburetor off the Yellow Trike to get this one running enough to know that there are no other intake issues, then I will crank up the EFI project into overtime because I see no reason to spend $160 on a new carburetor to use temporarily.

Of course, in the attempt to test fire the engine, it appears that fuel is not getting *to* the carburetor and that even if it were, the battery is too low to crank it, so while the charger tops off the battery, I am here typing away. Which give me some time to organize my efforts.

I have elected to rob the MSII and Innovate O2 sensor off Buzz to get the trike running. That will save me about $500 in parts and shipping and waiting. I will need to get a DB37 connector for the wiring harness and find some kind of weatherproof box to put all the guts in, primarily the MSII controller, relays and fuse block. It should be big enough to put the trike's other fuses and relays in as well.

A suitable intake manifold has been ordered and has in fact been shipped and is scheduled to be delivered this Thursday (11/05/09). Once I have it in hand, I can make the adapter plate to attach the motorcycle throttle bodies to it.

After that, comes lots of little bits that need to be done. In no particular order (and subject to change):

Attach trigger wheel to crank pulley and install (change belt)
Mount trigger wheel sensor
Mount EDIS module
Mount EDIS coil and wires
Wire EDIS system
Pull distributor and plug hole
Put fuel pump in tank
Put fuel gauge sender in tank (not really EFI, but should pull tank only once)
Plumb fuel to TB
Cylinder head temp sender for CLT?
IAT on TB like on Buzz
Lots of tuning.
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Some parts arrive

Post by Sluggy »

Today, I received my manifold and my throttle cable parts from Flanders.

A lunch, I mocked up the TB and manifold and measured the combined height. I think I have 10 inches clearance under the fiberglass, as measured from the top of stock manifold cross tube. Allowing for a little more than 0.25" for the adapter plate and gasket, I only have about 2.25" for an air filter. I think I can use a K&N RC-2380, which is a single filter with two flanges 75mm apart or RU-1822, which is a set of two filters identical to Buzz's four. Obviously, I can rob two of these filters from Buzz for the time being. In fact, I've had one as a carb cover on this engine already.

To adapt the TB to the manifold, I will make a plate (or two joined plates) from 1/4" stock, using the gasket as a guide. Atop that plate will be two cylindrical rings large enough for the base of the TB and an O-ring to slip into. It will have a bracket of some sort to secure the TB to.

The throttle cable is pretty normal throttle cable stuff. I had originally ordered parts for this trike, but used them on the Yellow Trike. These that arrived today are pretty much just replacements for those. Of course, now I need to connect it to the TB eccentric instead of the carburetor.

Finally, while this is not particularly EFI related, the guy at Mid Cities Cycle called, announcing the arrival of the switch pod. This will allow me to wire all switches except for the key switch to the left handlebar, just like the Yellow Trike, except that I won't fry the start switch on this one. The solenoid on a VW starter pulls way more current than the little switch could handle. The simple addition of a relay addresses the issue nicely.
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The Usual Delays and the IMS

Post by Sluggy »

Sometimes, it sucks to work.

I have spent most of what would otherwise have been a great week to work on the dragon trike in New Mexico working. I enjoy New Mexico and I like our people there, but I wanted to stay home.

Even after spending the week out of town, I wasn't going to forsake the Dallas appearance of the International Motorcycle Show to work on the trike. Overall, the show was pretty good. Enjoyed seeing the Ducati stunt team. Nothing sounds quite like a Duck. Found that for all the hype, the Honda Fury is unridable for the same reason most other choppers are. Long bike, long seat, long pegs, short bars. Who want's to ride when folded into a cramped "C"?

The bigger problem with the show was with what was missing. This is my third year attending. The first year it was held at the Fort Worth Convention Center. Besides being my home town and essentially walking distance from work, the Ft Worth show seemed much.... I don't know, "fuller". More vendors, more manufacturers, more.. stuff. Last year in Dallas, there were fewer bike vendors than the previous year in Fort Worth. Absent in Dallas last year were names such as Moto Guzzi and Vespa and Kymco that were prominent in Fort Worth the year before. Similarly, some notables were missing this year, like Victory, KTM, Triumph, and of course, Buell.

We still managed to have fun and shop a lot.

One thing that occurred to me suddenly whilst I was in the Kawasaki pod was that my plan to use the throttle bodies that were apparently from a Ninja 650 might be simplified by the acquisition of some stock parts.

One of the part fabs I will need to do is some kind of adapter between the TB and the manifold. The Ninja (or the Versys; they use the same engine) has to connect the TB to the engine, so maybe their connector can be adapted to my manifold easier than building something from scratch. According to Kawasaki Parts House, they are only about $20 apiece. Unless i can get RIGHT on fabricating something, I will probably order a couple of them.
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Intake Work

Post by Sluggy »

I finally got started on the throttle body adapter!

Using the gasket that came with the intake as a pattern, I cut a piece of 3/16" plate to shape and cut the holes in it.

I struggled for a couple of hours trying to fit existing tubing and a couple different O-rings to the base of the throttle body. I tried using exhaust reducers. They came the closest to fitting and I guess it was worth trying, but the only combination that seems likely to work will be to gently stretch a 2" fitting so that the smaller diameter end is very slightly larger than it is now. It will not be easy to do that and keep it round and O-ring-sealing smooth.

Luckily, I may not need to. After noticing that my hatless short sleeve work uniform was inadequately warm for the falling temperatures in the carport, I came inside and found that a best offer I'd submitted on a pair of actual EX650 intake boots was accepted.

There is a slim chance that I may have to remake the plate for these intakes, but it will be worth it to not have to deal with the precision required to seal and attach the throttle bodies to the intake manifold!

Since I'm waiting for parts now, I thought this might be a good time to apply some thinking out loud time to X-Tau acceleration enrichment.

In short, this is an enrichment that compensates for how much of the injected fuel sticks to the walls of the manifold. This is another one of those things that I'm so very glad that someone else had to figure out. As astonishingly brilliant as I am, I'm not sure it would have occurred to me. Anyway, the problem is that a percentage of the fuel going into the manifold sticks to the walls. This fuel eventually evaporates and makes it to the cylinder, only to be replaced by more injected fuel. In a steady state load, the sticking and evaporating fuel reach an equilibrium, but it can become a significant factor with changing loads, making the mixture unexpectedly lean during acceleration and unexpectedly rich during deceleration.

It would seem to me that intake tract length could be a large factor in this phenomenon, and in my configuration will in fact have a relatively long intake tract.

On Buzz, the intake tract was about 5 inches between the injector and the intake valve and there just isn't much manifold wall to stick to. That doesn't mean that it's completely not a factor, only that its a small factor.

On the VW, in my configuration at least, there is a good couple of feet of intake tract between the injector and the intake valves. Additionally, the intake tends to be cooler near the injector and warmer near the valve. This temperature differential is why most VW manifolds have tubes to circulate hot exhaust gases through the manifold, so that the temperatures along the intake tract will be more consistent. A cold manifold will condense vaporized fuel, exacerbating the manifold wall wetting problem.

Honestly, getting the engine running will not require much attention to X-tau compensation, but tuning it for best performance will.
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Checklist

Post by Sluggy »

In no particular order, here is a checklist of things that must be accomplished to run this engine on MegaSquirt EFI.

1. Intake fabrication
a. mount intake boots to plate
b. mount intake manifold to engine
c. mount IAT to TB
d. mount TB to intake manifold
e. adapt throttle cable to TB

2. mount trigger wheel on crank pulley and install
a. clean, mark and drill stock crank pulley
b. bolt trigger wheel to pulley.

3. mount trigger wheel sensor on block
a. Bracket fabrication

4. mount fuel pump in tank
a. Sand bottom of tank clean
b. Cut interface ring and drill/tap it
c. Cut big hole in bottom of tank
d. Weld or braze ring to tank
e. Cut gasket and bolt in pump

5. Cylinder head temp sensor
a. May just use standard GM sensor

6. Mount controller

7. Lots of wiring

8. Tune
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Intake boots

Post by Sluggy »

Woohoo!

Looks like they shipped today....
Sluggy
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Intake Boots Arrive

Post by Sluggy »

Boots arrived today. As expected, I will need to remake or possibly just rework my intake adapter plate.

I trimmed the adapter plate I made a few days ago along the lines of the gasket to cleanly fit the manifold. The boots, however, have mounting tangs that overhang an area that was cut away. My first thought is that I should cut a new plate, but I think I may end up time ahead by simply welding on the two "wings" needed for proper attachment.

I remembered from looking at a Versys at the IMS that the boots mounted such that the TB was presented to the engine at a slight angle, but its shallower than I remembered. I don't think it will make much, if any difference. Because of the direction the throttle cable will need to route, the TB should end up tilted towards the doghouse. From the techie showoff standpoint, that will be cool because the injectors and injector wiring and plumbing showing is cool. If, however, the throttle cable will have to bend too sharply between the TB and the doghouse, I'll have to turn the assembly around. Well, the clean side will still be pretty cool.

I definitely want to salvage this adapter plate. I don't think I could have matched the diameter and spacing of the holes any better! Still needs deburring, but the match up very nicely.

I think I will try to drill and tap holes for the boots and choose cap scres of the appropriate length to not protrude a lot on the gasket side of the adapter plate. They will just miss (or just nick) the gasket, so they will also probably just miss (or just nick) the casting on the manifold. Because the boot seals with an O-ring, I don't imagine I will need 120 ft-lbs of torque to hold them down.

I want to run a brace between the adapter plate and a mounting tab at the top of the TB. This may end up being a bracket formed from some nice flat I have or maybe even just a long bolt

On this TB, the stepper motor driven subthrottle shaft includes a cam that operates the throttle for fast idle. MegaSquirt does not at this time support subthrottles, but it should be a simple matter to remove the subthrottle plates and use that motor for my idle air control.

Lastly, for this update anyway, I have yet to find any authoritative information on the flow rate for these injectors. I may try to work with it assuming that they are between 200 and 250 cc/min. If that doesn't work out, I suppose I can rob a couple of the known 245 cc/min injectors off Buzz.
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Trike is home for a few days

Post by Sluggy »

I have been essentially storing the trike at the BTW clubhouse. The *intent* was to have it down there to work on it, but mundane life has ensured that I have had little time to pack up and head down there, compounded by the need to keep my footprint there at a minimum for the holidays. Now that our (probably) final holiday shindig there has concluded, perhaps I can make some progress working on it down there.

But first, I want to get some stuff done that is arguably easier to do at home, such as the welding I need to do to complete the adapter plate.

An acquaintance is building an airplane from a kit and whilst perusing the builder's guide on their website, I stumbled upon a piece of advice that I had inadvertently ignored: "[your construction space] should be as close to home as possible. Driving any distance at all to work on the [airplane, trike, whatever] will drive the time to build up by unimaginable amounts – one [airplane kit] builder estimated that having to drive only four miles to work on his project doubled his construction time."

It also says that "Good light, air conditioning or heat as the climate requires, good ventilation and good organization are essential. An uncomfortable place to work means hurried, often poor, work."

In my case, those are almost exclusive of one another. The clubhouse is a fairly well lighted space that has a roof over it, a decent amount of work space and a few specialty tools that are absent at home. It is, however, 4-5 miles from home.

My driveway is covered but otherwise essentially outdoors, and crowded with stored tools and vehicles. It is, however, very close to home.
Last edited by Sluggy on Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sluggy
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Driveway cleaning

Post by Sluggy »

Today was very nice and, difficult though it was to do so, we worked on stuff around the house instead of going for a ride.

Filled the back of my truck with trash and other discardables from the carport. I still had the boxes that various Harbor Freight items came in, such as the air compressor, engine stand, welding cart, tool box cart and soda blaster. Most were at least wrinkled from humidity, if not completely warped from rain. Fall leaves, countless shopping bags (mostly from AutoZone, which is probably a hint that I should be a stockholder) and no shortage of used paper towels littered the area.

We had some aluminum frame windows that were promised to our neighbor long ago. They were stored quite literally as far back in the carport as possible. Because of the work today, I was able to clear a path all the way back there and retrieve them for him. Tiny karma gain.

I worked from about 10:30A or so until 7:00PM. If you look at it critically from a before and after point of view, all I did was make room for one more trike. More importantly, though, 2/3 of the space is clean enough to easily roll things around. Another good evening's work and I may be able to roll the purple trike all the way back where the best work space is and work on it at home for a while.

So long as it's not devastatingly cold or actively precipitating, the space isn't too bad. I have a 30,000 BTU heater almost exactly like this one and it keeps a decent working area warm. I may try to cover the gap between the top of the fence and the roof of the carport to keep some of that heat enclosed.
Last edited by Sluggy on Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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