GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

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R100RT
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by R100RT » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:59 am

Bike charging systems, that's a well deserving aspect of these projects. When I bought my bike years ago, I was unaware of how pityful the stock BMW front crank mounted Bosch system was, and learned the hard way (with stuff like small jumper cables in tow on my first long trip back before mods started). Even @ 280watts fully functional, normal diode board degredation and lower rpm usage would kill a battery under average usage about town.
:) Then I fit a 900watt Mitsubishi alternator to the front of the boxer engine on a shive drive not so different to how BMW changed their modern machines, that has certainly helped in adding fuel injection, even carrying a lap top, as well the welder (just kidding). I have a 400watt invertor onboard during tuning runs to take the lap top battery component out of the equation, and with all systems running the dead idle bike voltage never drops below the 13.8 that it develops @ speed. Actually the invertor may become standard equipment as in my search for small ultra high pressure (above 200psi at flow) water pumps, I find the 120vac piston style to be emerging as best ( for a water injection system which joins the parade this winter).
I seem to have moved far away from the original promo phrase for the airhead product, which was "Simple by Choice". :roll:

24c
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:19 pm

24c wrote: Unfortunately, I got as little carried away, and it now takes slightly longer from hot, then when I started. One step forward, two back, but at least I saved the previous tune, so I can start again.
I only seem to manage the briefest of tweaks nowadays, as I'm always working, but today I set time aside to do some more WUE & cranking tweaks. I was getting slightly confused last time as noted previously, but coming to the bike after a few weeks clarifies things. I tried to start the bike were I had left off, and it kept missing almost catching until it backfired and cleared the exhaust. I then noticed on cranking that the MAP portion on VETable2 was starting off top left, and dropping three cells before shifting right when it started in.

Once I noticed this under cranking,
Screen shot 2010-10-02 at 11.26.24.png
... so I reduced the crankingPW downwards,
Screen shot 2010-10-02 at 11.27.43.png


and then the after cranking first column VE values hugely downward, which are affected by MAP in VETable2
Screen shot 2010-10-02 at 11.29.06.png
The result of this was much faster starting when hot, and I'll probably have to tweak the WUE % from cold, but it is encouraging again. Laptop tuning is so much faster than unscrewing carb bodies and altering jets. :lol:

I also managed prior to this to tweak my WUE downwards, as these too are way rich, and it was a little bit colder today, so I got more time to do it.
I also tweaked the lower part throttle MAP areas in VETable2 between 2000-4500 rpm, I just wish I had the bike on the dyno for some load data, but that'll happen one day.

PS Earlier in the week the new potted adaptive VR conditioner from jbperformance dropped through the letterbox, so I'll be playing with B&G2.890 to see if it improves the GTS1000 OEM cam sensor issue. If it does, I'll be fitting this to the GTS1000 and ordering another naked board to go in the full sequential MicroSquirt module project.
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Last edited by 24c on Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

mxrob
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by mxrob » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:04 pm

I just had my bike on the dyno Wednesday... I thought I had it set up pretty close but there are some areas that are very hard to data log that were off quite a bit. Being able to stand next to the bike and make changes live while on the dyno is freaking awesome. So much easier to set up VE tables. It was well worth the $$ invested to be able to get the VE tables and ignition tables set... we just loaded all 13's in the AFR table and set both VE tables (I'm using a secondary table for more TPS resolution) so the dyno's 02 sensor and EGA read 13 in every bin we could visit. We then set up the AFR table so the bike performed the best in each bin. I started with the stock timing curve. We only made a few changes to the curve under high load mid RPM situations. We couldn't make any improvements over the stock curve in the other areas. Now all I have to do is spend some time tinkering with cruise throttle AFR bins, and possibly timing bins, to see if I can coax the maximum fuel economy out of the bike. :) I too am playing with cranking pulse width to improve hot starting... I was a bit rich for sure. I see my bike needs the extra fuel when cold but not once if gets a bit warmer. I'm sure I'll be playing around with this for some time.

24c
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Thunderace engined GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:26 pm

Its been a long time since I started the bike now, and I have missed the cold snap we just had in the UK, through working away from home. I tried to start the bike yesterday, and it just cranked and cranked....which was really strange as nothing had changed since last time. I was having to start the bike with a squirt of brake cleaner down the throttle bodies, and then it dawned on me as I realised the fuel was probably too low... which it was :oops:

It really is the simple things...most times, which leads me onto todays attempt. Go to the bike hook up the MacBook, connect the jump/boost battery and hit the button, and nothing crank and crank, pop etc. Hang on it's not -8ºC, there is no way the CLT temperature is that... check the Thermistor Settings, :? there are none! I made some custom ones some time ago, and there gone, yep I updated TunerStudio last night. :oops: :oops: Select Toyota for now, it's close enough, send the values into the MicroSquirt and bingo straight away the bike fires, and then dies suddenly.

A few tweaks of ASE, WUE and then VETable2, but it's still not right, as it's been better before. Cranking was around 250-290, so I moved the cranking limit from 300 to 400 rpm. Ignition off & on, and hit the button...bingo, slow idle but ASE holds it and then slows after ASE finishes ( I have a short ASE cycle times) and WUE takes over. A few tweaks, needed to be richer based on AFR at 7ºC to 14ºC, but as the bike warmed from 15ºC to 41ºC I had to lessen the WUE %. I had a gradual taper, but it looks like I need a stepped approach.

Now for a few cold start repeats over the next few days, and hopefully refine the process.

PS I am going to look at the injection ms/battV correction too, as I think this is the reason for the variations I have seen previously.

24c
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Re: Thunderace engined GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtr

Post by 24c » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:46 am

24c wrote:Now for a few cold start repeats over the next few days, and hopefully refine the process.
So I tried another cold start, but didn't hook up the computer, the engine cranked, & cranked, then missed, then popped, but it wouldn't start without a squirt of brake cleaner into the throttle bodies. Once it started ASE cut in and the revs climbed, then gradually dropped as the engine warmed. If I stopped the bike and hit the starter button, the bike started no problem, but as it got warm it didn't like it.

So after tweaking the VETable2 downwards at hot idle, to get the AFRs something like. I decided to work on the hot start and tweak the cranking and priming pulsewidths. I don't know if this is the right approach, but I zeroed the Priming PW from 70ºC upwards, and reduced the Cranking PWs to 10%., and not surprisingly the engine never caught on the starter. I bumped it up to 30%, and it started after a few seconds, but the LC1 was still suggesting it was rich, so I looked at VETable2, and watched what happened when I hit the starter.
VET2_hot_start_trace.png
My VE values were high from a previous import and as I haven't loaded the engine up on the dyno yet, so some areas haven't been tweaked to the required AFR.

However, as soon as I reduced the bins in these areas (upper left) the engine took longer to start, so I bumped up the Cranking PW % until it got better, it went from this
hot_start_101002.png


to this
hot_start_101215.png
Now I am going to wait for another cold start tomorrow and hopefully improve at the colder temps, but I must admit it's quite confusing having a load of msqs from different dates and keep changing the variables. It is becoming obvious, there are quite a few permutations out there, and not one size for all. :)
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24c
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:32 pm

I had an issue with the colder starts, and the cranking was slower and seemed over advanced. I looked at MAT Retard Ignition settings, and mine were all flatlined at zero. So I dialed in a bit of retard and the engine seemed to start easier, but before I could log it, the cold got the better of the MacBook Pro and it black screened on me, and wouldn't reboot.

Today, after looking at the documentation a little more, especially MAT Retard for Ignition, and realised I was using it not as intended. I saw the Cold Start Advance section and thought I'd check mine, and sure enough loads of extra advance was added, another 5º & more by default. I reduced this to zero and the bike was still not 100%, so it had to be elsewhere. I set & checked my ignition timing at hot idle, but I have been moving the rpm bins around, and I made a mistake by not keeping up with the changes, as it seems Ignition Table 2 had a load of extra advance at cranking. :oops:
As you crank, the bins follow the trace from left to right...
VET2_hot_start_trace.png
so my ignition advance as I cranked started at 12º dropped to 3º climbed back to 12º before dropping to 3 again once idling
IgnTable2before.png
IgnTable2after.png
and that's all it was, now I have to reset a few other bits, adjust the IgnTable2 bins to follow the factory ignition curve. At least I get a pretty quick initial start, if I add extra fuel, and cranking speeds are increased, because the starter is not getting slowed by over advanced ignition.
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24c
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:07 am

Just an update, but nothing really to add. I have been back to the bike on several occasions and been using the TunerStudio betas, on my MSExtra3.0.3 firmware. Unfortunately I tried to talk to the MicroSquirt yesterday, having done nothing since last firing the bike up, and I got a config error, that flashed up the 65K rpm error, and the bike was also filling with fuel. Not sure what happened, as it was the same project, same msq or current tune as last time, but the MicroSquirt was rendered unusable. :?

I tried reloading the firmware, but the port wasn't recognised, and I had no way of jumpering the bootloader, as the loom has been modified to suit the OEM connectors.

In the end, I had to take it home, couldn't open the TunerStudio Projects as they were corrupted, and eventually worked out what was happening. I had to delete the current Tune, and any modded/corrupted ones by TunerStudio, and use the last saved tune from an earlier session instead. I could only do this after reloading the firmware using the boot loader jumpers/switch on the bench/desktop rig, and it was troublesome and not straightforward as the COM port was not recognised, even though the same set up was seen by MegaTunix in OSX. After a dozen or so attempts I was able to reload the later MSExtra3.1.0 firmware, but it was a bit of a scare.

The only good thing is I am a lot wiser at restoring these cased MicroSquirts now, and how to mod/tweak my TunerStudio project files. It also means when I fit the module I will build in a switch for bootloader mode :)

Hopefully today, on the way back from work, I can tweak the bikes starting & WUE some more, and as a backup I have three MicroSquirts all loaded with MSExtra3.1 & the same msq.
Last edited by 24c on Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:47 pm

24c wrote:Hopefully today, on the way back from work, I can tweak the bikes starting & WUE some more, and as a backup I have three MicroSquirts all loaded with MSExtra3.1 & the same msq.
Well I did, except using the same msq settings in MSExtra3.1, the bike wouldn't start without additional fuel (brake cleaner) being squirted down the throttle bodies, and it idled hardly at all. I had to richen things up, but it still sounded dreadful. The LC-1 was playing up, but this is a settings issue, as I need to look at this again. The last bit is me not reading the manual, after a firmware upgrade methinks, as I was getting a lot of AFR spikes in Narrowband mode.

The really daft thing I did, and I add it here for the benefit to others, I switched identically programmed MicroSquirts and two of the units wouldn't start the bike. I could smell fuel, and then it hit me... the jumpers inside were set to logic level output. The really daft thing was I tested them on my COPs bench rig which had an ignition amplifier/driver module, but forgot I was running wasted spark coils on the bike. Incidentally, leaving the jumpers set to direct trigger the coils and connecting to COPs via an ignition amplifier will still create a spark on the bench rig, and this is what fooled me. :oops: :lol:

Hopefully after work today, I can try and get the bike started from cold, and calibrate my Innovate LC-1, and get back to where I was before I had a config error.

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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:03 am

24c wrote:Hopefully after work today, I can try and get the bike started from cold, and calibrate my Innovate LC-1, and get back to where I was before I had a config error.
I'm not where I was before, but at least I got a cold start, after pumping up the cranking pulsewidths to 200%. I then had to tweak the WUE curve to stabilise the AFR reading, although it doesn't sound the same as before. :?

I've been retarding the ignition and increasing the VETable values, but it doesn't still sound right. I am going to reload the previous firmware onto a spare MicroSquirt, and load my last known msq, to see if it runs any better. Something isn't right, and I've got more work to do.

On a more positive note, I have been able to use the developmental branch modular_0.4 version of MegaTunix 0.9.24, as well as TunerStudio 0.9.999h seamlessly with either MicroSquirt running MSExtra3.1.0.

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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:00 pm

Back on the bike engine again, another MicroSquirt with non LLO set up, and after two attempts started fine. First churn on the starter, after three seconds, it fired, idled briefly, then died.

MSExtra3.1.0 is definitely different to my previous 3.0.3 versions. Going to have another go tomorrow, with increased cranking pulses and increased ASE %, so that after the engine catches, I can hold through to WUE phase.

Got three cased MicroSquirts set up on MSExtra3.1, but going to revert one back to 3.0.3 with a previous successful msq, as a double check. I'm definitely convinced there is something different happening with the 3.1 upgrade. :?

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