Dan Gielas, Briggs and Stratton 590cc VTwin

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Dan Gielas, Briggs and Stratton 590cc VTwin

Post by gielamonster » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:48 pm

Name: Dan Gielas
Vehicle: 2005 / Briggs&Stratton / Modified FSAE Engine
Engine: 590cc, V Twin, not very stock internals, aircooled
Injection: Port, undecided injectors, stock single barrel carb manifold (test setup only)
Description: University of Michigan - Dearborn Formula SAE powertrain
Website: This is a tweaked Briggs and Stratton motor that will hopefully kick a little watercooled sportbike motor butt at FSAE '06.
Engine Details:
  • Briggs & Stratton 21hp V-Twin de-stroked to 590cc using 16hp crank
  • Billet aluminum connecting rods
  • Forged aluminum pistons
  • Titanium valves
  • Aluminum roller rockers
  • Aluminum push rods
  • High duration solid lifter cam
  • Hitachi VR sensor triggered by a single crank magnet (for now)
  • Innovate LC-1 WBO2 sensor/controller (on the shelf while we get things rough-dialed with a NB)
  • Dual exhausts with stock sausage muffler cans (for now)
  • Puck style restrictor (for now)
  • 50mm Ford throttle body (to be replaced by ~35mm)
I guess I can give some details on the dyno too...
Image
Dyno Details:
  • Land & Sea Dynomite snowmobile water brake engine dynomometer LINK
  • Electronicly adjustable load valve for constant RPM or defined RPM sweep runs
  • Complete integrated DAQ system
  • Custom (hackjob) stand
The first two upgrades planned for this motor are to incorporate COP or coil-near-plug ignition, and then slap on the Garrett GT12 turbo. Obviously we'll spend some time getting to know the fuel-only control, then relearn everything for the spark control, then relearn both of those doing the boosted control. Should be fun!

The car dyno'd at 18.75 rwhp at the competition last year. That was with the identical 590cc long block, single barrel (16hp) carb and dual magneto ignition. So we've got LOTS of room for improvement.

Now what project thread would be complete without photos?
Full gallery - http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/g ... ggsNSquirt
Image Image Image Image

After we implement spark control and have the engine running really well in NA form, we'll add this little beasty courtesy of Garrett...
Image Image

Finally, here are a pair of videos and a picture of the engine running for the first time (11-2-05)...
Vid 1
Image


Vid 2
Image


Here's how the setup looks right now.
Image
Beautiful, I know. Not me in the picture/vid by the way, I'm behind the camera. Its actually in a nasty mess right now, since everything is all pulled apart for troubleshooting.

We're still having some issues, but it started and ran on command 10x in a row, so I'm calling it success at this point. Should be at least slightly downhill from here.

Biggest things to fix:
1) Intake leaks. Engine revvs up to a few thousand rpms at "idle". Not hard to fix, we'll get that easily.

2) V1.01 MS has seen better days. Its been acting up then working ok, then looking like its acting up but starting the engine. It needs a little TLC. But it won't get that until after I build up the brand new V3.0 to use instead. The V1.01 will be relegated to backup duty.

I'll post back to this thread with periodic updates.
Last edited by gielamonster on Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Post by gielamonster » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:09 pm

Also wanted to post a few much deserved thank yous:

Eric Fahlgren (Efahl) - Eric has donated countless messages, a bunch of valuable components, and most recently a few hours of his time to help get us on our feet with this project. And of course his work on Megatune helps a bit as well. We're really lucky Eric lives so close by, and it just so happens he's an alumni professor from UM-D as well!

Rodney Sparks (RS Autosport) - Rodney has offered us generous discounts on some top-notch components. They'll help us maintain a professional appearance at the competition.

Brian ??? (Boost Engineering) - Brian offered us a good deal on the LC-1 kit.

Jamie Richardson (T3Bunny) - Jamie has offered advice and guidance on finding a sweet Panasonic Toughbook to be used for testing. Its a "ruggedized" CF-27 that should handle anything we throw at it, even rough riding datalogs in the FSAE car.

User avatar
efahl
Site Admin
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Canton, Michigan, USA
Contact:

Post by efahl » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:40 pm

Dan,

This is great! So all you really had to do was put 5v to the trigger sensor and it started working? I'd guess that those things are really Hall sensors, do you know how many teeth the wheel in the original installation contains?

Eric

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Post by gielamonster » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:05 pm

efahl wrote:So all you really had to do was put 5v to the trigger sensor and it started working? I'd guess that those things are really Hall sensors, do you know how many teeth the wheel in the original installation contains?
Eric, the problem was I was feeding the VR sensor +12V lead with the Fuel pump relay terminal 85! It was just a total goof on the wiring. I'm actually shocked that we got the good tach signal as long as we did. I multimetered the "+12V" lead and only got .6V. No wonder.

Anyways, all I have to do now is toss a couple more mags on the flywheel and we'll be able to get it running as a twin or 4 banger instead of a single. Then its on to VE tuning instead of just getting it to start.

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Post by gielamonster » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:46 am

This weekend I soldered up most of the new V3 PCB. To this point we've been running the original V1.01 from 2001. It still works fine, but newer is better, right?

Here's some shots of my partly completed V3:

Image
Image
Image


Its a lot denser than the old one! But its quite obviously an improved design.

Here's a shot of my "bench". It actually took me a lot longer than I was expecting, but I'm really taking my time, and have been getting easily distracted (Go Stillers!).

Image

I've completed the input circuits and have only the output circuits left. I started yesterday. By the time I finish I'll probably have about 6 hours into the actual assembly. Of course the last time I soldered an MS was in 2002, so I consider myself a noob again. When I solder up the next V3 for my 951, it will probably only take me half the time.


Right now the engine is running pretty well. Got some more help from the saint otherwise known as efahl. Thanks again Eric.

The only remaining issues before we can begin dyno tuning are a bit of noise in the VR signal input (should be fixed by the improved conditioner built into the V3) and a similarly noisy power supply thanks to a 50A booster pack. Here's a short video from tonight, although I should have walked over and captured the exhaust note a little better, it really sounds great!

Image
http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/g ... t/MVI_2740

Thats Mr. Megatune himself in the foreground of the video, doing his dance with the keyboard to tweak the idle portion of the VE table.

Cheers.

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Post by gielamonster » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:51 am

Oh yeah, check out my V3 board where D19 and R57 should be! (top right, under the group of three resistors)

Image

The board was a pre-prod donation, so I'm assuming these two components were added on a later revision? They're part of the power supply circuitry. Should I "hack" them into place somehow?

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Post by gielamonster » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:16 am

Ok, fired it up on the new V3 PCB. It works ~ok~, but is noteably worse than it was on Monday.

We're getting a ton of resets, I believe they're from the tach spikes. Since we've been running it off a temporary solution all along, I've decided to just move onto a true trigger wheel, hopefully it will solve the tach input problem.

Here's a short vid from last night. You can see some of the tach dancing early on, and I got a little closer to the exhaust in this one.

http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/g ... t/MVI_2741

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Post by gielamonster » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:44 pm

Another progress (or lack thereof) update. Things have come to a grinding halt recently. We've lost all funciton/communication from both the V1.01 and V3 MSs. Swapped PCBs, HC08s, serial cables, and laptops. Zero communicado from the V3 with any HC08. Gibberish back when Q, S, or V is held down in Hyperterm for the V1.01 on only one of the HC08s. The other equals no comm. No response of anykind if you just type a letter.

The kicker is that since my last post, the stimulator and our error* daughter card have sprouted legs and walked off. I seriously doubt anyone could steal this stuff, its worthless to 99.99% of the population, they'd have no use for it. And I still haven't un/resoldered backwards transistors on the daughter card, so its completely useless for now. But the real problem has just been no way to test/troubleshoot the MSs apart from my possibly buggered engine harness. Anyone have a spare MS or stimulator they'd like to "donate" for a cut rate? The team is running short on cash and we could use all the help we can get.

I know that I've had more than the typical teething issues getting things alive, but I need to prove it to my teammates through results. There's been mumbles about working on wiring up the extra motec we have lying around! Blasphemy!

I'm hoping to borrow some time on efahl's stimulator early this week. I'd really like to leave for Christmas vacation knowing the engine is in 100% running condition and ready for the full gamut of dyno tuning we want to throw at it.


On another subject, we found a great source for aluminum bends for the intake manifold and plumbing...

http://www.burnsstainless.com/AluminumT ... mtube.html

Good selection and cheap prices. I'm also picking up a 36mm TB from a 3 cyl Geo Metro for about $25 shipped. Its a TBI unit with integral TPS, but I don't think it has any idle bypass built in (which is illegal for FSAE). If it does, we'll just plug it with JB weld.

I remember a link to a place that sold short pieces of bellmouth to weld onto the end of the intake runners. Anyone know what that was?

(If you can't post to this thread, please PM me with any responses).

User avatar
efahl
Site Admin
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Canton, Michigan, USA
Contact:

Post by efahl » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:55 pm

gielamonster wrote:On another subject, we found a great source for aluminum bends for the intake manifold and plumbing...
Check out these guys, local and competent, might be good for some sponsorship. http://www.woolfaircraft.com/elbow.htm
I remember a link to a place that sold short pieces of bellmouth to weld onto the end of the intake runners. Anyone know what that was?
Probably on one of Justin Olson's threads, Ross Machine: http://www.rossmachineracing.com/

User avatar
gielamonster
MegaSquirt Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:13 am
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Contact:

Post by gielamonster » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:48 pm

So if you've been following, I've been having a problem with getting a consistent RPM reading, as well as a recent problem that cropped up, very frequent resets, although only under cranking (and they don't disappear when the MS is remotely powered. The system tests out perfectly with the stim.

So tonight I completely retraced the entire harness. I found that the +12V power feed to the MS was actually soldered to pin 30, the FIdle ground path!?!? How the heck did it even turn on? There was nothing ever connected to pin 28, it had zero solder on it.

Good news is, found the error and rectified the situation. Bad news is, NO CHANGE to how things were working.

Scouts honor, the datalogs and actual combustion that has happened in this setup were using the goofed wiring. How it worked, I don't know. What I'd like to figure out is how to get it working right.

Post Reply