GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

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mxrob
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by mxrob » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:58 pm

Yeah, I kept whacking my required fuel down to get the lowest bin above 25... I have still ended up with idle down at 22 after lots of VE tuning. I may go ahead and whittle away at required fuel again to get the VE numbers back up around 30. I really need the resolution down there on my big thumper... may not be as big a deal on a multi-cylinder machine?

I haven't taken a look at the battery voltage comp yet.... I'm still piecing together a good base accel enrichment scheme for the big lunger. I'm really close now though. Lots of things I haven't even touched yet..... like secondary fuel and ignition loads. If I need more resolution it is surely there. So far I'm having way too much fun riding the thing..... :yeah!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93vF8NfhF0

24c
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:14 pm

mxrob wrote:...Lots of things I haven't even touched yet..... like secondary fuel and ignition loads....
I use Alpha-N and SD additive, so as I saw your other post in MSExtra, I thought I'd show you these, which are early days yet and based on my GTS1000 stuff off the dyno. They are probably well rich, and have been so far. I have only gone to about sub 4000 rpm on the wideband sensor, and most of the recent work is around 70-50 kPa. Idle is between 800-1100 bins and 75-65kPa.
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mxrob
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by mxrob » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:46 pm

I set up secondary fuel today.... I went for more TPS resolution (30x16). I'm running pure Alpha-N until the VR2 gremlin gets handled. Still not finished :RTFM: ... Probably never will be. :lol: I extroplated from the single VE table into two tables in additive. VE1 is 1 to 35% TPS VE2 35 to 100%. I wanted the most resolution in the lower bins. First thing I did was flood my engine! :? So I :RTFM: and then found the answer on the forums... Thanks Hassmachine! The top bin of VE1 and the bottom bin of VE2 have to be zero's or both tables are added together. :oops: Once I straightened that out the TPS resolution for my thumper was just the ticket... huge improvement in the low speed response. Now I may lower required fuel and rescale my VE tables as I'm down to 22 in my idle bins... rescaling the idle bins back up to around 30 will give me a bit more resolution in the lower throttle bins. But it is running fantastic even as is. :yeah!: The difference that both the µs ignition and fuel control have made in this machine would be difficult to explain to someone who has not experienced it for themselves.... and I'm no where near done tuning. I have some dyno time scheduled for later this month. That will be another FI learning experience... the last dyno run I did a couple months ago I was yanking carbs and re-jetting. This is going to be a lot more fun. :mrgreen:

24c
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:53 pm

mxrob wrote:.. the last dyno run I did a couple months ago I was yanking carbs and re-jetting. This is going to be a lot more fun.
It is, especially compared to carbs on twins and fours. The changes are faster, the feedback is quicker, and you soon get a grin or a frown. Trouble is most folk get a little lost just doing carbs on a dyno, and there are so many things to play with when that Microsquirt is hooked up to a laptop, you can easily lose yourself!

The nice bit for me was riding the bike home afterwards, as your seat of the pants might be the worst dyno in the world, but if your braking harder, you must be travelling faster, and there is only one reason for that. 8)

PS No dyno for me until the shaft is made good, but it gives me time to sort out a camera mount for the bike.

mxrob
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by mxrob » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:53 am

I never expected to get to dyno testing this quickly. My goal was to learn something about FI tuning by getting the bike to run the best I could with the seat-o-the-pants dyno first. I have already well exceeded the FCR-MX carb's results and I worked on that thing for months getting it to where it was. :roll:

24c
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:23 am

I nipped round to the Thunderace engined GTS1000 again, and thought I'd adjust the WUE & ASE% a little more by trying to reduce the excess richness, as well as set up the other MicroSquirts to equalise the .msqs. I couldn't spend more than an hour max on it today, as I have chores to do back at the house. :evil:

I must admit watching the AFR and tweaking the ASE, & then WUE is quite satisfying, and I am getting a little closer, although I am noting the Battery Voltage & PW info more. I also found the scaling options in TunerStudio very useful, as I can increase the resolution of the curve easier, which is more useful for small engined motorcycles.

I still need to work on the Injector Battery Voltage Compensation, but I did tweak the Cranking Pulsewidths, lower the Cranking RPM settings, to try and get a faster start up. Just dropping the cranking RPM made a difference on hot starts. I also need to increase this some more on cold starts, or look at the priming pulsewidths, as if I hook up the MicroSquirt, crack the throttle, power up the MicroSquirt & bike, it doesn't want to fire and sustain...yet if I switch it off, and switch it on again, it starts very quickly, and holds on the ASE/WUE phases. :?

I might even look at the VETable1, because I have created a 400 rpm bin for creating a very slow idle experiment, and I can achieve similar results using this I think, especially if I lower the cranking rpm default value.

mxrob
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by mxrob » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:17 pm

That's basically double the prime pulse and double the cranking pulse. The prime really shouldn't be used for enrichment but in your scenario I bet it's contributing at least somewhat to the faster start-up on the second try. Are you sure your fuel system is seep free? if air is getting into your pressure line somehow a couple shots might be necessary to get all the air out. I spent a lot of time on my fuel system making sure I gave any trapped air the best shot at getting out before it made it to the pump. I bleed air again (if there is any) by tying the regulator bleed and fuel pump flood lines to the tank vent along with the swirl tank vent.

24c
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:56 pm

mxrob wrote:... Are you sure your fuel system is seep free? if air is getting into your pressure line somehow a couple shots might be necessary to get all the air out...
I don't think it is this as if I swap ECU for OEM on the GTS1000, I get the same behaviour with the cased MicroSquirt, and no issue with the Yamaha ECU. I think another day will get better results, and I have a few other things I can try.

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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by 24c » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:13 am

Yesterday, I managed to squeeze another hour on this cold start and tuning the WUE so more, daft thing is its been a while, and I left the LC1 heater circuit connected, so that explains why the lights didn't come on the dash when I turned on the ignition key :oops:

A fresh battery, and I was up and running. Bike fired up straight away, so the priming pulse increases have helped, but it died straight after. I then noticed I had got too much fuel, as the AFR was way low, so a quick tweak, and it was normal business. As the biked warmed up I kept reducing the fuel to reduce the richness, and it's amazing how much over fuelling the bike can tolerate.

I tried a little VELive on VETable2, and it started to lean out some more, but when I burn in TunerStudio it stalls the engine, so I was becoming aware of the hot start cranking times. I'd thought I would experiment, and one of things I did was look at the AFR spikes under cranking. I lowered the cranking RPM and it made a marginal difference, and then I had a thought...what if I raised the cranking RPM to well above starter cranking speed. Bingo, I reset the ASE to 0%, so it wouldn't affect things, read the AFR, as I cranked the bike at 280-350 rpms as it tried to catch. I changed the cranking pulses to alternate, as the engine was well rich I lowered the cranking pulse widths until the AFR went up, and it made a difference. Unfortunately, I got as little carried away, and it now takes slightly longer from hot, then when I started. One step forward, two back, but at least I saved the previous tune, so I can start again. :lol:

mxrob
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Re: GTS1000 on MicroSquirt running MSExtra

Post by mxrob » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:26 am

24c wrote: I tried a little VELive on VETable2, and it started to lean out some more, but when I burn in TunerStudio it stalls the engine, so I was becoming aware of the hot start cranking times.
Yeah, I give my bike a bit of a rev before I burn so I don't hammer my battery to death when making changes. I had a pretty old lead acid battery in there when I got the bike running on fuel. Didn't take long for it to give up the ghost with repeated starts. I have a lithium pack with four A123 cells in there now. :)

Sounds like you are making good progress. The "steps forward database" is important to add to. :idea:

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